“There's only one mindset: win, win, win!”

INTERVIEW

Linked by the emblem, the glorious history, and the mystique of Sport Lisboa e Benfica, Carlos Manuel, one of the icons of the eagles from 1979 to 1987, and João Mário, one of the team captains today, are the protagonists of an interview for the Club's media that is much more than tha. Moments of sharing and symbiosis between two midfielders from different eras, with the values of the Glorioso always present. 

Carlos Manuel: We've been here for a few years, I've been here longer than you...

João Mário: True.

CM: And there's nothing better than starting with that phrase that's written on the wall, “Talent wins games, but teamwork and intelligence win championships”. What do you say to that phrase?

JM: I couldn't agree more. This is a maxim for me in football. If you play for a team that always wants to win titles, as we do, you can only do it as a team. We always have great individuals in the squad, but that's not enough. It's the team that makes all the difference, and it's something that's cultivated.

CM: Talent appears when the team is better.

JM: Exactly.

CM: No doubt about it. It was like that in my day [laughs]. Things are still the same. Look, just the fact that we're here in this place, which is usually our second home - but times are different now... How do you live in the Benfica dressing room?

JM: All right, the atmosphere is very healthy. It already was last year. We always try to adapt the new players well. It's a fairly young squad this year, that's for sure, but when you work with such quality and with people who are always willing to help Benfica, it makes it easier for everyone. Our squad this year, despite being young, and from what I've seen in training at this early stage, is a squad with a lot of quality.

Carlos Manuel: only my second home, but also the place that almost gave me everything. I was coming from a 'little job' at CP, working, studying at night, playing for Barreirense, and my social life changed completely when I arrived here. It means a lot to me because of the value, essentially, that all those great players Benfica had at my time - plus the older ones, the Tonis, the Humbertos, the Nenés, the Shéus, the Pietras, the Bentos - gave me, not in football, but in everything more intimate. It was my life. That's why the dressing room is strong.

João Mário: It's priceless. This is often what remains, because it's really where we have the most intimate moments with our teammates, our friends. We spend a lot more time here together than we do with our families. Obviously you've stopped playing, and you miss the pitch, but you also miss this place a lot...

CM: I miss the shower [laughs], falling up here...

JM: Everything about this space I think is unique, because everyone sees the match day, but not everyone has the privilege of being here, sharing the space with people you identify with a lot, with whom you spend a lot of time. Without a doubt, this is what remains.

CM: That's very true. And how is this pre-season going?

JM: Pre-season is always very demanding. It's a time when we have to work hard on our fitness. We have big ambitions for this year, and we're working to the max. I feel a healthy squad, which I think is the most important thing to start building the foundations for this year. I feel a group with a lot of desire to win titles this year, and I'm sure this group will be very good.

CM: Tell me something: what is Roger Schmidt like as a coach and as a person? I know that for us, as players, it's always a bit difficult to talk about these situations because then we get to the dressing room and we know what it's like... “apple-polisher”, in jest. And sometimes we avoid something... But essentially it's about speaking the truth and how you feel about the person.

JM: In the case of the gaffer, the greatest compliment that can be paid to him is that he's unanimous. You can talk to anyone at Seixal and they'll tell you the same thing - that, on a human level, he's a spectacular person. He's one of those people who always transmits a lot of good energy, he's very positive, and that makes a lot of difference to us on a daily basis. And as a coach, his ideas for the game are very clear. It's something that everyone can identify with a little, because you always want to dominate games, you always want to play under pressure, you always want to score goals as quickly as possible, and that's clearly the idea that he gives us in every training session. Personally, I really like his idea of the game, and I think the whole club does too, because Benfica thrives on this, on goals, on playing well, on winning.

CM: To essentially play well too...

JM: It's not enough just to win, we have to play well too. I think we've been cultivating that, little by little, and it's been starting well.

CM: I don't know Roger [Schmidt] as well as you do, of course, but you know that we have certain perceptions, even in the games themselves, I don't watch the training sessions, but in the games I have the perception - because I played... In the coach's countenance, in the player's countenance, what I always noticed was that the relationship between Roger [Schmidt] and the team, I mean the whole squad, was great. That's what I've always noticed. Even on our trips abroad, that's what I always noticed.

JM: There's a lot of respect for him, exactly because of what I said, the way he treats us on a daily basis, how he gives us that good energy and that confidence. It makes all the difference - with someone you spend so much time with, who often has to make difficult decisions for the group - for there to always be a healthy environment that allows us to give our all, always respecting what his decisions are. But because he's so calm, even during matches, he's not a coach you'll always see with his arms open complaining. He doesn't have those characteristics, he's a very calm person, and then he also ends up transmitting that to the team.

CM: That's good, and I'm glad. From player to player now, how can you make a difference to Benfica's style of play?

JM: We never like to talk about ourselves too much, but above all, seeing how the squad is now, with a lot of young players, I always try to be a reference point, a mature one in this case. Regardless of the position, the dynamic, everything, what I always try to do is bring my individual qualities to bear on what the manager's idea is, and I know the ideas well. We've been working together for some time. Seeing a lot about this squad and the way it's being built, I always try to be a positive and mature reference point within it.

CM: With what mindset do you enter this new season?

JM: It can only be one, because we always play to compete. Every year we're contenders for everything, and there's only one mindset, which is to win, win, win, because it's an obligation. We learned from last year that it's not enough to play well, it's not enough to win once, it's not enough to win the Super Cup, you have to win and always compete until the end.

Carlos Manuel: For the incoming players, how do you pass on the mystique, the culture of Benfica itself, the importance of the fans? Basically, it's the history of Benfica and what it means to be a Benfica fan... Regarding the importance of the fans, in my day it was like that, and it still is today... You know that Benfica has this side of having people. Benfica sometimes has fans who have great difficulties in their lives in financial terms, but they pay their dues. That's why I say to the smallest Benfica fan, we have to have enormous respect for them because there are difficulties and they are always there to help. How do you teach this to newcomers?

JM: One of the messages I always try to pass on to new arrivals is that the club is very demanding. We're winning 1-0, the fans want 2-0; we're winning 2-0, they want 3-0; in other words, don't settle for good enough. Here, good isn't good enough; at the Estadio da Luz, good isn't good enough. So we need to send a message to those who arrive that we always have to push ourselves to the limit. We have to go beyond the limits, because our fans - whoever they are, because I have respect for all the fans, everyone in the team has that respect - are demanding, so there's no point in cultivating a message that the good is enough. No. We have to be close to excellent values, and that's the message I try to get across a lot. Then there's also a message of unity, because we feel that if we're all together, the fans make a big difference. And they really do, especially in home games, but we almost always play at home. Last year we had the experience in some away games, even in European competitions, of not having the fans, and we missed that. So all of us rowing together will always be easier.

Carlos Manuel: It didn't start now... Back in my day, the demand made on us.... Passing the ball from defensive to attacking midfield, and if it went back to defensive midfield, the Third Ring would whistle. But that was the natural responsibility we were given. Football has changed a lot, it's completely different from my time. Today you go to the end line and don't cross, the ball has to bounce, sometimes it even reaches the goalkeeper... If it were my time, we'd even have to run off the pitch... Things are different, but the demand was there.

João Mário: You're telling something that's current. Football has changed, but it happens in our home games. If it's 3-0 or 2-0 and we make a back pass, they keep whistling, because it's the responsibility, they pass that demand on to the team. I can give you a clear example: I remember the first feedback I got from someone in the stands when I scored a hat-trick against Inter wasn't “congratulations”, it was “let's go for the fourth”. I'd scored a hat-trick in the first half and nobody said “congratulations”, but to go for the fourth goal. That's Benfica's demand.

Carlos Manuel: Today, with social media, it's completely different. Before, we'd finish the game, our cars would be outside the stands and the fans would be waiting for us from time to time. In the same way, when we went to training at Camp No. 3, the fans would talk to us nearby. But that was more to make us feel responsible, which is no bad thing. But there's another word here: mystique. I have a very, very sui generis conception of Benfica's mystique, which is what the dictionary actually says: it's a collective and affective attitude based on devotion to the club. These two words, affection and devotion, mean a lot here. I think that's what Mystique is. Of course, we'll talk about the drive, the desire, the will, but it's part of this.

João Mário: It's a word that's very, very much introduced into the club, that you hear a lot from the kids in the youth team to the first team, and we talk about it a lot. I've been here for a while and I've seen what the Benfica mystique is, and it's certainly an important word. As you rightly said, by definition, people like a team that works together. We always talk about individuals, Benfica will always have great individuals, and people will always like that. But it's always difficult to win, because here it's not enough to win one game, it's not enough to win 10 games, you have to win the league, you have to fight in the competitions, win the cups. I don't know any team that can achieve those goals without a strong team.

CM: The club has a president who perfectly embodies these values we've been talking about, the mystique, the culture of the club, all these values. Do you feel that on a daily basis?

JM: Clearly... If there's anyone who identifies us and transmits this mystique to us, it's the President, he's the biggest symbol present in our daily lives at Benfica. Not just because he's President, but because of who he is. As he was also a player, all the feedback he gives us is always aimed at raising our awareness and making us understand what this mystique is.

CM: I met the President when he was probably 9 or 10 years old. Do you know how?

JM: No.

Carlos Manuel: I'm going to tell you a little story. We had a dressing room that, when we left to go to the game, had a long corridor until you got to the tunnel. When I went to an international match to warm up, Diamantino and I were there, and I saw a kid leaning against a wall, crying. And I said: “Are you crying? What happened?” [Answer] ”I arrived late to be a ball boy, and Zé Luís [who was our dressing room manager] doesn't want to give me the kit, because I arrived late, but I have a problem, because my father and mother brought me, they left me at the entrance and went to the stadium. The stadium is full, and they won't see me inside, they'll be worried.” This was already his concern. I said to him: “Hang on, let's see what we can do here.” I grabbed him, went over to Zé Luís - who was nicknamed Marradinhas, he got upset there from time to time - and I said: "Zé, give the kid the kit to be a ball boy. His parents are there, if they don't see the kid, they'll be worried.” At the time, there were no cell phones, it was a worry. And Zé: “I won't, he's late!” Me: “No, it's fine. Give me my tracksuit, I'll warm up in my tracksuit.” He gave me my tracksuit, I took the kid to my locker. He started to undress, I put the tracksuit on him, we rolled everything up, it was a sack of potatoes, and, hand in hand, he went inside. That's how I met our President.

João Mário: Great story, many years ago...

Carlos Manuel: Many years, we're talking about 1981 or 1982. That's how I got to know our President, but that's an aside, it's a story I'm very fond of, not least because it was Rui Costa, the player he was. The feeling in the dressing room... And that's because, normally, from the President to the fans, there's always one thing in mind, and that's to win. Inside, is that also true of you?

JM: Of course, that's a must at this club. Anyone who comes in, sees the quality in the squad, the feedback from the fans... Nowadays, there are social networks, there's everything. From the moment a player signs for Benfica, he automatically knows that he's going to fight for everything, so, in a way, it's easy to convey that message, because everyone in the club, for those who arrive, says: “You've arrived at a great club, the conditions you have are spectacular, it's up to us.”

Carlos Manuel: We don't know each other very well, of course. I know you better than you know me, at least in the pitch. I really enjoyed talking to you. I think you have a spectacular head. In our jargon, you're not a muppet, and I think the club also needs people like you, who help those who arrive and those who stay, in that sense. We're all going to need that. Thank you, João.

João Mário: Thank you very much, I really enjoyed this conversation, and thank you for the goal against Germany too.

Carlos Manuel: You know I was wrong? That's my right.

João Mário: It's history. No one changes history, no one erases it.

João Mário: You could play in our system.

Carlos Manuel: I gave a lot, because I was very objective, there was no ball back.

João Mário: The gaffer likes that, playing forward.

Carlos Manuel: Then there were things, in the long pass I was very strong too, the shot outside the box , my goals were almost all outside the box. I think you have much more technique than me, in technical terms you are very evolved, you have a good pass, possibly even more beautiful to play, you know? No doubt about it.